Foulies

[xort]

Looking at upgrading my foul weather gear this year. Maybe at Strickly Sail, perhaps sooner.

But I can't decide how high end to go. I won't be doing weeks at sea and the cockpit is always covered by bimini and can be closed up with issinglass. So I won't be sitting exposed in torrential rain for hours and hours. During most storms, I plan on being tied down, not out at sea. Very little chance of hurricane exposure and I'll be tied down well in advance if it does happen.

I can see needing to go into town via dingy during rain or needing to go forward during rain.

I'm thinking I don't need a heavy inner liner, I can layer a fleece on separately. I'll buy oversized to accomodate that. But I think a light liner might be a good thing. Even in tropical weather, a rainy day can be a bit cool. If it's real steamy, I'll go topless.


The big question is how cheap can I go and still get completely waterproof and still breathable?

[Giulietta]

Wait for the Chicago boat show and buy there HH and Gill at half price.

[sailingdog]

Also worth looking at the clearance racks at your local Worst Marines... I picked up a nice coastal weight Gill three-dot jacket that I use as my everyday jacket for $40. It was originally $200 or so.

[Tejas]

APS currently has a sale.

[ChucklesR]

Buy a pilot house, full enclosure Foulies are for folks that don't plan ahead. Way ahead.

[xort]

aps currently has a sale.

aps??

[erps]

The commercial guys (Deadliest Catch) wear Grundens.

[xort]

The commercial guys (Deadliest Catch) wear Grundens.

All PVC, no thanks

[jackdale]

All PVC, no thanks

Agreed - portable sweat lodges.

I have always liked Helly Hanson. A set of Coastal foulies did me quite well. Now that I am sailing in cooler months a set of HH offshore pants and Gill offshore jacket are doing me quite nicely.

The HH coastal would do you well. I still miss the hat strap; Gill does not have one.

[sailingdog]

Sailing Gear: Clothing, Equipment, Hardware, Shoes, Line, Sailboat Parts | Annapolis Performance Sailing,

aps??

[erps]

All PVC, no thanks
Agreed - portable sweat lodges.

Yes, I hear you on the perception of PVC gear being portable sweat lodges. What would commercial fishermen know about staying warm and dry anyway?

I actually started out wearing PVC Helly-Hansons almost 25 years ago. Still have the bibs but they have some holes. Switched to some fancy gortex stuff. Found that they were no better than the PVC stuff when they got soaked and they would cling to you, very uncomfortable. Back to wearing Grundens now. I'm no longer much of a believer in breathable waterproof fabric.

[jackdale]

Ray

Helly material apparently is not Goretex. I have been in downpours and not been wet. I wore my coastal Hellys on my passage from Honolulu. They were good. My current Helly Offshore pants are great. My Gill Offshore is also good. I am not sure what fabric Gill uses.

Jack

[Sailor Tim]

Speaking of which, I have yet to find a breathable jacket that I can wear in summertime squalls. Every Jacket I have ever purchased claims to be breathable. It sounds great when trying it on off the rack and they are great COLD weather jackets, but wear them in a hot summer rain and I bake.

Am I better off purchasing one light wieght jacket for hot summer months and one for cold weather/Spring and Fall?
I hope my question might help Ed as well. What do you guys do?
Remember, we get both ends of the scale here. It can be 90 degrees sailing in summer and 40 in the fall. I love my Henry Loyd Costal Jacket, but it can be too much for summer.

[jackdale]

Speaking of which, I have yet to find a breathable jacket that I can wear in summertime squalls. Every Jacket I have ever purchased claims to be breathable. It sounds great when trying it on off the rack and they are great COLD weather jackets, but wear them in a hot summer rain and I bake.

Tim

In hot summer rain, you should grab a bar of soap, strip down and shower.

Actually when sailing in the tropics, I am usually wearing a bathing suit. Getting wet is not an issue.

Jack

[Buckeyesailor]

Also worth looking at the clearance racks at your local Worst Marines... I picked up a nice coastal weight Gill three-dot jacket that I use as my everyday jacket for $40. It was originally $200 or so.

I got the same thing SD.......Love 'em!

Loved the bargain too!

[jackdale]

Yes, I hear you on the perception of PVC gear being portable sweat lodges. What would commercial fishermen know about staying warm and dry anyway?

I actually started out wearing PVC Helly-Hansons almost 25 years ago. Still have the bibs but they have some holes. Switched to some fancy gortex stuff. Found that they were no better than the PVC stuff when they got soaked and they would cling to you, very uncomfortable. Back to wearing Grundens now. I'm no longer much of a believer in breathable waterproof fabric.

Ray

Do the commercial fisherman wear PVC because it is easy to clean? I would not want fish guts on breathables.

PVC will keep you warm. No doubt there. On my last course one of the students had some PVC gear. He was soaked with sweat and I was dry.

[jrd22]

Jack- Like Ray, I also wear commercial gear (Grundens, HellyH, etc) and I'm sure that part of the reason fishermen wear PVC is the easy clean (fish smell doesn't soak in). I don't think I would want to wear it in warm climates, but here in the PNW it's rarely warm enough, especially when it's raining, to cause any problems. I find it comfortable and almost indestructible, I also wear and love XtraTuf boots.

[jackdale]

Jack- Like Ray, I also wear commercial gear (Grundens, HellyH, etc) and I'm sure that part of the reason fishermen wear PVC is the easy clean (fish smell doesn't soak in). I don't think I would want to wear it in warm climates, but here in the PNW it's rarely warm enough, especially when it's raining, to cause any problems. I find it comfortable and almost indestructible, I also wear and love XtraTuf boots.

Remember I sail north of you - Gulf Islands and west coast Vancouver Island

[jrd22]

Whatever works for you I guess, Jack. I can understand most people not wanting to wear commercial fishing gear, ya sure ain't going to win any best dressed contests, but I stay warm and dry with it. Laurie wears Gill and likes them.

[bilgewater]

I prefer commercial fish gear myself. It aint pretty stuff as JRD points out but it lasts forever and I find it the most comfortable in various conditions. I wear Boss boots and a proper black rubber sou'wester and I'm good to go in anything. I've tried lots of other stuff and always come back to this basic stuff.

[erps]

Ray

Do the commercial fisherman wear PVC because it is easy to clean? I would not want fish guts on breathables.

PVC will keep you warm. No doubt there. On my last course one of the students had some PVC gear. He was soaked with sweat and I was dry.

I'm sure that's part of it along with durability. There was a similar thread on sailnet recently and several commercial guys chimed in that they stayed warm and dry too. I have a theory about that. I've tried two fancy rain suits since going back to PVC. Neither were top of the line stuff, they were in the middle. Each performed well at first. Soon the water repellency wore off. The outer protective fabric got rain soaked heavy and started pressing the inner breathable liner against your clothing and the cold wet outer layer. That appeared to have severely diminished the breathablity of the garment.

Now on to the PVC stuff. The fabric is stiff and the cut allows lots of air space between your body and the fabric. As you work, you're pumping some air movement back and forth out your sleeves and the neck of the jacket. I think this gets rid of water vapor and helps negate the lack of breathability of the fabric. That's just a theory.

At any rate, there was a similar discussion on sailnet recently. The commercial guys on both coasts gave strong testimonials on their choice of PVC gear. That carries a great deal of weight with me, as they aren't out to impress anyone, they're just trying to make it through a long day in bad weather the best way they can, and I'm guessing their choices of gear have evolved to what works.

[jackdale]

Soon the water repellency wore off.

Ray

Thanks for the response.

I have heard / read that the water repellency is affected by salt particles in the fabric and that washing will restore the fabric.

I am going to give that a try with my coastal gear. Has anyone else had success with this?

I guess the consensus is wear what makes you comfortable. The same probably applies to boots. I started using Sperry Fathoms because my feet sweat too much in rubber boots and I cannot afford DuBarrys.

[hellosailor]

I had a GoreTex "Extreme Wet Weather" warranteed jacket fail last year and while trying to chase down a replacement I spoke to a lot of folks. They all said the same thingthat the guy at North Face (which offers about a dozen similar fabrics) said: There's gen-you-whine GoreTex, and then there's everything else, which is cheaper and not quite as effective or durable. But, cheaper.

I still love GoreTex but my serious foulies are HenryLloyd, snatched up when they were changing model lines one year so the "old style" were only slightly painful to buy. Much cheaper than a cockpit dodger, and easier to clean than dodger windows, too.

(Isinglass? Really? Mica or fishgut, not just PLASTIC?)

[bloodhunter]

I've had Henri Lloyd gear for over 10 years now and it's just as good as the day I got it (though a little stained) It's gotten a lots of use, not only in sailing but I wear it in winter when that miserable icy rain is coming down cause it's the only truly waterproof thing I've got. It was very expensive (even on end-of-season sale) but given its durability it was worth it.
My marina neighbor has Grundens commercial foulies which seem to be really top quality. Only thing I have against them is they're heavy with a capital H

[Robinhood]

I have a heavy set of breathable offshore gear made by Jeantex. Popular other places but not so much here in USA. Comparable to Lloyd etc. Guy on e-bay has inventory left and sells cheap. great stuff but heavy.

Have a light set breathable from Atlantis. Also nice stuff also from e-bay.

Do use commercial fisherman boots with heels. Heavy but dry and warm. Buy them big as you want them off quickly should you go overboard! Mine are Helly Hansen....great stuff. also use them in winter to shovel snow!

[xort]

I have a heavy set of breathable offshore gear made by Jeantex. Popular other places but not so much here in USA. Comparable to Lloyd etc. Guy on e-bay has inventory left and sells cheap. great stuff but heavy.

Have a light set breathable from Atlantis. Also nice stuff also from e-bay.

Do use commercial fisherman boots with heels. Heavy but dry and warm. Buy them big as you want them off quickly should you go overboard! Mine are Helly Hansen....great stuff. also use them in winter to shovel snow!

Tell me more about the light Atlantis jacket. Does it have a liner inside? Really keeps water out even in a hard rain?
And the Jeantex, heavy like a winter coat? The only Jeantex on e-bay is PVC. I wouldn't compare that to Lloyd. Are thre other models?

[Robinhood]

Tell me more about the light Atlantis jacket. Does it have a liner inside? Really keeps water out even in a hard rain?
And the Jeantex, heavy like a winter coat? The only Jeantex on e-bay is PVC. I wouldn't compare that to Lloyd. Are thre other models?

Google Jeantex....Mine is like this:

Sailing | Sailing Clothing | Waterproof Jackets | Foxster Outdoor Clothing


Except grey.

It's three years old. Guy must be gone from e-bay. Got y whole set for $200

Maybe Alex knows another source but it is nice stuff.

Atlantis is breathable outer shell with light mesh liner. Has hood and is very dry but not warm. Needs layering. Jeantex is very warm by itself.

Good luck,

Robinhood

[Alchemy]

I just completed an Atlantic delivery last week and purely by chance I found a pair of Musto discounted bib foulie pants for $69 at a local place. They fit generously, which is what you want to crouch and creep about if conditions argue against a manly stride up the sidedecks. Despite a center cockpit enclosed on three sides, I wore them down to 25 N., not because of the cold, but because we got spray often and green water occasionally back there in the squally, half-gale conditions that were a feature. This mean I was at the helm sitting on soaked cockpit cushions as often as not.

I ended up wearing them with long johns, then shorts and underpants and then underpants. Over that I had a Goretex rainsuit jacket I use for cycling in Toronto (Banff Wear), with a fleece sweater and T-shirt below, with of course a PFD with D-Rings and tether above. The fleece went off near Bermuda and then the coat, meaning I wore the bib pants with a T-shirt most night watches. Yes, I sweated a bit, but it was better than sitting in salty shorts and I didn't hesitate to kneel on deck or on wet lines due to the reinforced knees and seat on the pants. I almost always wore a canvas Tilley-style hat, even at night, because of the erratic spray, and I sometimes wore bicycle gloves for grip rather than warmth.

In the true tropics, I wore no shoes, shorts and a T-shirt with a plastic "crossing-guard" type of raincoat during squalls, just to keep the spray off.

So I went for layers of mixed marine and non-marine gear over a "dedicated" set of foulies. This made sense to me given the latitudes and time of year, but if I had had to do more foredeck work, or had I been in an aft cockpit of a more open boat, I would've preferred the real deal.