WIFI...extended range choices...

[Camaraderie]

I came across this ad for a new wifi extender product for boats called "Wirie"
today and they also had a comparison chart with other similar products. Obviously...this chart may be biased given the source...but I thought it might be helpful to those interested in extended wifi to see some of the choices available and the pricing.
The Wirie: Product Information (Note...the chart is clickable and enlargement is more easily read at the link)



I am NOT the one to comment on any of these solutions but perhaps the geekier elements around here can contribute!

[sailingdog]

A few things.

First the Wirie is USB based and many of the USB-based network drivers can cause issues or are flaky/buggy.

Second, the Wirie is USB based and that limits the length of the cable and the height you can hoist it based on the maximum length of USB cables. If you need more than 15' or so, you'll need a powered extension USB cable.

Third, because the Wirie is USB-based, there is no way to connect it to a small WiFi router and re-distribute the WiFi connection among several computers without using a computer—running something like Internet Connection Sharing—to do so. This means that you need to have one specific computer on all the time for others to be able to use it.

Finally, at $225, it is a much more expensive solution than the NanoStation 2 and still more expensive than the Bullet 2HP with a 9db gain Omni antenna.

BTW, I've written a primer on setting up long-distance WiFi on cruising boats on my blog. You can read the article here.

The Ubiquiti NanoStation2, Nanostation Loco2, and Bullet 2HP I mention in my blog article are all micro-WiFi-to-ethernet bridges, and use a single Power-over-ethernet cable to connect them to the computer or router in the main cabin. The POE cable means that there is a single cable and the cable and antenna can be easily hoisted to even the top of the mast on most boats, as POE has well over a 100' length limitation. The first two have a built-in directional antenna and are less than $80. The latter allows you to customize the setup by choosing an appropriate antenna, and is about $170 with a 9 dB gain omni directional antenna.

[ckgreenman]

If it were me I'd get a cheapie WiFi extender, configure it for the network in question (SSID and wep/wpa key if necessary), put it in a weatherproof plastic box and with a long power cord hanging out a sealed exit hole, and hoist it to the top. Plug the other end of the cord into a 12V cig lighter socket and your good (assuming the router is 12V). That would be a whole lot cheaper and would probably work just as good. Unless you're using high gain directional antennas you aren't going to get much better reception and the transmitter should be enough to reach your computer at or below deck.

[kiltym]

Hi,

My name is Mark Kilty, I am the owner of The Wirie. After reading this post, I had to make some statements, as there are things listed here that are not accurate, and I feel individuals should have all the information in order to make a decision about what suites them best for the WiFi needs on their boat. My comments have nothing to do with The Wirie, they are correcting some things stated about USB devices in general.

A few things.

First the Wirie is USB based and many of the USB-based network drivers can cause issues or are flaky/buggy.

The Wirie is USB based, and the network drivers that we use have been in use for over 2 years and there are well over 100,000 units of the WiFi adapter in use all over the world. Although this can be true in some circumstances, the WiFi unit we use is well proven, as is the software that the unit requires. USB is a well-proven technology that everyone is familiar with and is using every day. I agree some drivers can cause problems, but if you purchase a product with a good name, this will not be an issue.

Second, the Wirie is USB based and that limits the length of the cable and the height you can hoist it based on the maximum length of USB cables. If you need more than 15' or so, you'll need a powered extension USB cable.

This is false. USB requires the use of Active Extension cables every 5 meters. These cables are not powered (except by the USB cable itself) and can be extended up to 80 feet with no signal loss. There are other means to extend USB as well, basically indefinitely, but the 80 feet is more then what is needed on every boat we have worked with. Also, height is not the most important aspect in getting WiFi on your boat, clear of obstructions on deck is typically all that is necessary.

Third, because the Wirie is USB-based, there is no way to connect it to a small WiFi router and re-distribute the WiFi connection among several computers without using a computer—running something like Internet Connection Sharing—to do so. This means that you need to have one specific computer on all the time for others to be able to use it.

This is true. However, unless you have a need for a network on your boat (and I have yet to meet a person out cruising that does), this doesn't matter, In order to run a network you require full time electricity to power the Client Bridge as well as a Wireless Access point. Something most cruisers don’t have or want. With Internet Connection Sharing on Windows or the Mac, the network can be used to connect multiple computers whenever it is needed. What cruisers typically want is the ability to share a single internet connection, and this is possible with any USB solution or Ethernet based solution. With Ethernet, more hardware, more wiring, and more electricity is also necessary however.

Finally, at $225, it is a much more expensive solution than the NanoStation 2 and still more expensive than the Bullet 2HP with a 9db gain Omni antenna.

BTW, I've written a primer on setting up long-distance WiFi on cruising boats on my blog. You can read the article here.

The Ubiquiti NanoStation2, Nanostation Loco2, and Bullet 2HP I mention in my blog article are all micro-WiFi-to-ethernet bridges, and use a single Power-over-ethernet cable to connect them to the computer or router in the main cabin. The POE cable means that there is a single cable and the cable and antenna can be easily hoisted to even the top of the mast on most boats, as POE has well over a 100' length limitation. The first two have a built-in directional antenna and are less than $80. The latter allows you to customize the setup by choosing an appropriate antenna, and is about $170 with a 9 dB gain omni directional antenna.

I encourage any cruiser to take a look at the link you provide referring to your installations. What a lot of people don't understand is the average cruiser is a sailor, not a network engineer. I agree similar performance can be gained by any number of solutions on the market (USB or Ethernet based), but all the Ethernet/POE/Client Bridge solutions are more complicated (wiring, 12V power hookup, configuration, etc). I have worked on many of these systems while cruising here in the Caribbean, and what I am typically doing is getting the system configured properly again so it can be used. This is not an easy task for someone with limited networking background (and sometimes its even hard for someone with a technical background). The USB devices on the market were designed to be used by anyone, and therefore their use is typically much simpler.

My point here is not to promote The Wirie, it is simply to try to make sure everyone has all the information they require to make a good informed decision about their WiFi equipment for their boat. There are pros and cons of USB and Client Bridge solutions, but from all my experience working with cruisers and WiFi, at the end of the day, most are much happier with a USB solution.

Mark

[Camaraderie]

Welcome aboard Mark...and thanks for your further input. I'm sure the Dawg will be back with further comments. We allow vendor participation here to answer questions or correct information about your products from members and you may also post an "Ad" for free in our vendors forum to discuss your product.
What is not permitted is negative comments about the competition or jumping in and touting your product when any wifi question is asked. So far you have comported yourself well...just wanted to lay out the ground rules here for ya.

[sailingdog]

Hi,

My name is Mark Kilty, I am the owner of The Wirie. After reading this post, I had to make some statements, as there are things listed here that are not accurate, and I feel individuals should have all the information in order to make a decision about what suites them best for the WiFi needs on their boat. My comments have nothing to do with The Wirie, they are correcting some things stated about USB devices in general.

The Wirie is USB based, and the network drivers that we use have been in use for over 2 years and there are well over 100,000 units of the WiFi adapter in use all over the world. Although this can be true in some circumstances, the WiFi unit we use is well proven, as is the software that the unit requires. USB is a well-proven technology that everyone is familiar with and is using every day. I agree some drivers can cause problems, but if you purchase a product with a good name, this will not be an issue.

Yes, but USB-based WiFi drivers are generally more bug-ridden than the built-in WIRED ethernet interfaces.

This is false. USB requires the use of Active Extension cables every 5 meters. These cables are not powered (except by the USB cable itself) and can be extended up to 80 feet with no signal loss. There are other means to extend USB as well, basically indefinitely, but the 80 feet is more then what is needed on every boat we have worked with. Also, height is not the most important aspect in getting WiFi on your boat, clear of obstructions on deck is typically all that is necessary.

So, for any distance over 5 meters, you require additional cables, which create additional connections that can corrode or fail. POE can be run over the entire distance using a SINGLE, uninterrupted cable.

This is true. However, unless you have a need for a network on your boat (and I have yet to meet a person out cruising that does), this doesn't matter, In order to run a network you require full time electricity to power the Client Bridge as well as a Wireless Access point. Something most cruisers don’t have or want. With Internet Connection Sharing on Windows or the Mac, the network can be used to connect multiple computers whenever it is needed. What cruisers typically want is the ability to share a single internet connection, and this is possible with any USB solution or Ethernet based solution. With Ethernet, more hardware, more wiring, and more electricity is also necessary however.

Many of the cruising sailors I've spoken with do require access for more than one computer.

I encourage any cruiser to take a look at the link you provide referring to your installations. What a lot of people don't understand is the average cruiser is a sailor, not a network engineer. I agree similar performance can be gained by any number of solutions on the market (USB or Ethernet based), but all the Ethernet/POE/Client Bridge solutions are more complicated (wiring, 12V power hookup, configuration, etc). I have worked on many of these systems while cruising here in the Caribbean, and what I am typically doing is getting the system configured properly again so it can be used. This is not an easy task for someone with limited networking background (and sometimes its even hard for someone with a technical background). The USB devices on the market were designed to be used by anyone, and therefore their use is typically much simpler.

Most of this isn't rocket science, and can be handled by any person with a modicum of training/education.

My point here is not to promote The Wirie, it is simply to try to make sure everyone has all the information they require to make a good informed decision about their WiFi equipment for their boat. There are pros and cons of USB and Client Bridge solutions, but from all my experience working with cruisers and WiFi, at the end of the day, most are much happier with a USB solution.

Mark

[ChucklesR]

I'm not a network engineer.

I have two desktops and three laptop's running at home, and that's just for the two of us. When the kids were still living here we had as many as a dozen PC's running. Sometimes, depending on work I have more, including beefy desktops running as servers.

When the Admiral and I cruise we do NOT share laptops. Wifi for both (maybe three considering the 'boat' get's her own) is a necessity. It's how we make a living, and that's pretty wide spread now.

[kiltym]

Hi,

Just to clarify, it seems like I implied (based on these responses), that I don't think having internet access for more than one computer is important on a boat.

That is not what I said/wrote, nor what I meant.

I agree, most of our customers do want this, as most cruisers these days do have more than one computer on board. My point is that they don't want/need a network with a router/access point to accomplish this. They simply need to share an internet connection which can be done using either a USB or Ethernet solution. The goal, and a point of having a network, is not the same as simply sharing an internet connection. And certainly, if your goal is to reproduce what you have in your house, then a client bridge and router is the best way to go. We just don't think the majority of people are looking for this, but certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion, and certainly there are exceptions to every rule.

If someone is looking to build a full network on their boat, I question if they are cruising, or simply a live-aboard. Which to me, are completely different lifestyles. Cruisers don't have the time (or electricity) nor the want to deal with their home network while on their boat, in my many experiences anyway.

This is my last post on this topic as I am not here to get into discussions on which is better for each individual, that's the individual's choice. I simply wanted to point out technical inaccuracies in the posts. I think the USB vs Ethernet thing is one of questions in the world where opinions will always vary, and individuals need to decide for themselves what they would like or need. I can only say, I have never replaced a USB system with an Ethernet system, but I have done the opposite on many occasions.

I hope everyone has a great day today and can spend sometime enjoying their boat!

Thanks for the forum, and the ability for everyone to participate,
Mark

[ckgreenman]

Mark, Thanks for the clarifications and for providing more info on your product. Please feel free to post a thread regarding your product in the Vendor's forum.

[NautiG]

I recently got rid of my Verizon data card. I'm not cruising so much anymore and the two year contract finally ended. Unfortunately, the free wireless at the marina really blows. About the only place it works is the bath house.

I have an old router lying around and wanted to use http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/ to turn it into a bridge. Unfortunately my router is not compatible with the software.

The wirie sounds interesting and I don't think it is outrageously priced for a commercial product. But I am a cheap a$$ sob and notice it is based on http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-...USB/Detail.bok which is only about $50.

I'm wondering about connecting the Alfa wireless adapter to my vhf coax and then to my computer. Would the vhf antenna be compatible? I don't really use my vhf and wireless at the same time, and have a handheld vhf as backup anyway. The alfa adapter would then be inside the cabin and connected to my computer via a short usb cable.

Scott
Gemini Catamaran Split Decision

[edguy3]

I'm wondering about connecting the Alfa wireless adapter to my vhf coax and then to my computer. Would the vhf antenna be compatible? I don't really use my vhf and wireless at the same time, and have a handheld vhf as backup anyway. The alfa adapter would then be inside the cabin and connected to my computer via a short usb cable.

Dont do it. your VHF cable is not suitable for 2.4Ghz. Iirc, you want LMR-rated cable, and even then, you want to keep it very short or the losses will be very high.

/ed

[Buckeyesailor]

Most of this isn't rocket science, and can be handled by any person with a modicum of training/education.

CRAP!....I was onboard right up till this point.....

[sailingdog]

Yeah, Buckeyes aren't bright enough to train or educate...they're buckeyes....

CRAP!....I was onboard right up till this point.....

[miatapaul]

Yeah, Buckeyes aren't bright enough to train or educate...they're buckeyes....

Yea, but when made of chocolate they are tasty! And they make good football players!

That said the Nano Station is the best wireless device I have ever used. The range is incredible and it took me just a few minutes from un-boxing to having a signal. Now getting bluetooth stereo headset to work on Windows 7 that has been an adventure! Now I happen to do networking for a living, but that really had no bearing on how quickly I set up my Nano station. I got the "LOCO" version and it is only $49. It is so simple even a buckeye could do it, after all I am an expatriate buckeye.

I will be hooking it up to my wireless router this weekend to connect another computer. (don't need the wireless portion, but it has 5 wired ports and is a router) I went from a 1 megabit connection to a full 54 megabit so I am a happy camper. I did not get much better performance with the custom router firmware so I think the Nano Station is the way to go.

I think POE is the way to go. If you are in a distant harbor there is a chance you can get a replacement Ethernet cable, but not an active USB extension (I don't think I have ever even seen one and I do this for a living). I am going to get a 12 volt POE adapter when I put it on my future boat.

Not to knock the Wirie system, just looks like a cheap USB wireless device put into a pelican case. I must admit I am not convinced that the Nano Station is that weather proof, but perhaps this gives me an idea for an improvement. A box to put it in should be about $20.